主题:说说印尼的N250灰机。顺带看看天 朝是啥水准。
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原文由 红色三翼机 发表

背后?我们背后还是麦道,安东诺夫呢?
虽然当年CN223是和西班牙一起研制的,但是AN250是印尼独立研制的!也就是说印尼出师了。
过程俺不知道,但是结果很明显,我们学了几十年安东洛夫,我们没出师,人家学了没几年就出师了,你说的问题可能就是原因,但是决不能是借口!


所以我说“路子是一样的”
而且,印尼人吹自研拟就跟着信了?他的队伍哪里来的?设计方法是从韩国同志那些学来的?
实际上
CN235是西班牙的C-212的拉长型,基础设计、气动设计、主结构设计都是西班牙干的,印尼就是负责部分生产,类似中国干EC120。
N250又是235的拉长型,技术跨越不会比新舟60到运七100大。

支线客机出师要这么容易,印尼的同学们干嘛不自己造难度更低的教练机呀,别忘了,巴西的教练机可是出口发达国家的。
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老坛泡菜
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运十。。。也是中途下马的,这两个比比也有点意思,就是差了点辈分

http://en.※※※※※※※※※.org/wiki/Shanghai_Y-10

Role 4 engine commercial passenger jet
Manufacturer Shanghai Aircraft Manufacture Factory
Designed by Shanghai Aircraft Manufacture Factory
First flight September 26, 1980
Status project cancelled 1983
Primary user China
Number built 2

The Shanghai Y-10 was a four engined commercial passenger jet aircraft developed in the 1970s by Shanghai Aircraft Manufacture Factory (now known as Shanghai Aviation Industrial Company, or SAIC). The Y-10 designation stands for Yunshuji ("transport") model 10. There are rumors that the Y-10 was a reverse-engineered design of the Boeing 707 Model 120 with some minor differences, while in other sources, the designers and the personnel of Boeing denied that the Y-10 was the copy of its Boeing 707, and claim It was an indigenous design.[1] After a thaw in relations with the West in 1972, China had acquired a Boeing 707 fleet but decided to forge ahead with its own jetliner that was free of dependence on foreign parts, except for the American engine.

The aircraft used Pratt & Whitney JT3D-7 turbofan engines, which were spares belonging to CAAC's small fleet of Boeing 707 aircraft. Shanghai had intended to use a Chinese-built Shanghai WS8 turbofan, but the Pratt & Whitney engine was selected before the WS8 could reach certification. The plane carried 178 in high-density, 149 in economy, or 124 in mixed-class. The flight deck had room for five crewmembers: pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer, navigator, and radio operator.

History

Development work began in August, 1970 for Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC). The plane was intended to serve as a demonstrator and help the Chinese industry obtain experience in large aircraft design and flight testing. The Y-10 development costs totalled 537.7 million yuan. The Chinese government prided itself on the program, citing a foreign press report that said, "After developing this kind of highly complex technology, one could no longer regard China as a backward country." However, the project was heavily tainted by politics from the beginning because it was spearheaded by Wang Hongwen, one of the Gang of Four. It's worth noting that the strategic vision of an independently developed large transport plane had long been voiced by Mao Zedong and, in 2006, a similar project with updated design goals made its way into the Eleventh Five Year Plan, a periodic strategic socioeconomical development plan from the Chinese government.

Only two examples were built. The first prototype (01) was used for static testing. A second prototype (02) was used for flight testing. The plane first flew on September 26, 1980. Until its retirement in 1984 it made 130 flights with 170 hours of flying time, and visited Beijing, Harbin, Urumqi, Zhengzhou, Hefei, Guangzhou, Kunming, and Chengdu. It also flew seven times to Lhasa.

However, by the time the prototype was first flown, debate about its viability surfaced. The Y-10 was based on a design that was already 30 years old. It was rumored that CAAC, which already owned a modest Western fleet, would not purchase the plane. China was beginning to embrace trade with the West, and some saw the isolationist design as an inefficient throwback to Maoism. Furthermore, China in the early reform era was ruled by rehabilitated cadres previously persecuted in the Cultural Revolution by Wang Hongwen, the project initiator, resulting in the cancellation of the project in 1983, officially due to cost and market concerns. In fact, during its maiden flights, no governmental officials attended the ceremonies for fear of the connection to Wang Hongwen and the Gang of Four. By 1985, SAMF had been granted production licensing for the McDonnell Douglas MD-80 and shifted all efforts towards that program.

Specifications (Y-10)
General characteristics

Crew: 5 (pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer, navigator, radio operator)
Capacity: up to 178 passengers
Length: 42.93 m (140 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 42.24 m (138 ft 7 in)
Height: 13.42 m (44 ft 0 in)
Wing area: 244.5 m² (2,632 ft²
Empty weight: 58,120 kg (128,130 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 110,227 kg (243,009 lb)
Powerplant: 4× Pratt & Whitney JT3D-7 turbofans, 84.7 kN (19,000 lbf) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 639 km/h (397 mph)
Range: 8,300 km (5,160 miles)
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,300 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.313
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原文由 望远镜 发表

很强的的理论!印尼那叫独立研制.
我们这个就算没有苏联专家参与,也不算!

比你的Y8,Y7如何?
N250早就没有西班牙参加了,和CN235也是完全两个东西,顶多是参照关系,这不叫自我研发,但是Y8叫自我研发
你的理论超级强啊。
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原文由 roygu 发表
随便狗了些N-250资料,也不知道准不准。。。
以前还真没注意过印泥的灰机。。
MS亚洲金融危机后项目停掉了。

http://www_airliners_net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=257

The IPTN N-250

Powerplants
Two 2439kW (3271shp) Allison AE 2100C turboprops driving six blade constant speed Dowt ......

据说世界银行给印尼贷款的一个前提是停掉这些和国计民生没有直接关联的项目,人家的要求也合理,我给你钱救急,你却省下钱搞飞机。。
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随便狗了些N-250资料,也不知道准不准。。。
以前还真没注意过印泥的灰机。。
MS亚洲金融危机后项目停掉了。

http://www_airliners_net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=257

The IPTN N-250

Powerplants
Two 2439kW (3271shp) Allison AE 2100C turboprops driving six blade constant speed Dowty Rotol propellers.

Performance
N25050 - Max cruising speed 610km/h (330kt), economical cruising speed 555km/h (300kt). Initial rate of climb 1970ft/min. Service ceiling 25,000ft. Range with 50 passengers and standard fuel 1480km (800nm), range with 50 passengers and optional fuel 2040km (1100nm).

Weights
N25050 - Operating empty 13,665kg (30,125lb), max takeoff 22,000kg (48,500lb). N-250100 - Operating empty 15,700kg (34,612lb), max takeoff 24,800kg (54,675lb).

Dimensions
N25050 - Wing span 28.00m (91ft 11in), length 26.30m (86ft 4in), height 8.37m (27ft 6in). Wing area 65.0m2 (700sq ft). N-250100 - Same except length 28.12m (92ft 3in), height 8.78m (28ft 10in).

Capacity
Flightcrew of two. Typical accommodation in N25050 for 50 to 54. N250100 will seat up to 62 to 64 passengers at four abreast at 81cm (32in) pitch, 68 at 76cm (30in) pitch, or 60 at 81cm (32in) with optional extra cargo.

Production
At late 1998 firm orders stood at over 30.

Type  
64/68 seat turboprop regional airliner

History

The advanced N250 is the Indonesian aerospace industry's most ambitious project yet but in late 1998 looked in danger of stalling due to the Asian financial crisis.

IPTN announced development of the N250 at the 1989 Paris Airshow. Prototype construction began in 1992 but by this stage calculations showed that the 50 seater would be overweight, and so IPTN decided to stretch the basic aircraft to seat 64 to 68 passengers. At the time only the first prototype was to be built to the 50 seat N250 standard, subsequent aircraft would have been to the larger N250100 specification. However in late 1995 this plan was amended and the 50 seat N25050 was again added to the model line-up alongside the larger N250100.

Features of the N250 include flybywire, a glass EFIS Rockwell Collins Pro Line 4 avionics system and Allison AE 2100 turboprops.

The N-270 is a planned 70 seat, 3m (10ft) stretched development which would be built in the USA by AMRAI (American Regional Aircraft Aircraft Industries). IPTN, General Electric and US investors established AMRAI to build the N270 at Mobile, Alabama but delays in the program have stalled this project. In 1997 IPTN also negotiated with Euro Regional Aircraft Industry (ERAI) to build the N-250-100 in Germany.

PA1, the 50 seat first prototype, first flew on August 10 1995, while PA2, the first N-250-100 development aircraft, began test flying in 1997. Work on a third prototype had virtually come to a complete stop by late 1998 and plans to build a fourth have been scrapped.

Indonesian certification was originally scheduled for mid 1997 and US certification for late 1997, but certification compliance issues and the Asian financial crisis conspired to delay the program and possibly stall it all together.

http://www_indonesian-aerospace_com/business/the_n250_status.htm

STATUS OF THE N250 PROGRAM

For the N250 program , we planned to have 3 ( three) flying prototype aircraft and 3 test articles.

The status for all the test articles are shown below :

N250 Production Status :
PROTOTYPE/TEST STATUS
PA1 (Protype Aircraft #1)______Completed ( 100 %)
PA2 (Protype Aircraft #2)______Completed ( 100 %)
PA3 (Protype Aircraft #3)______In Production ( 68.57 %)
TA4  (Statis Test Articles)______In Production ( 68.57 %)
TA3 (Fatigue Test Articles)______In Production ( 68.57 %)
TA5 (Bird Impact Test Articles)______In Production ( 68.57 %)

N250 Flight Test Status

- PA1 :

Flight test hours log : 665 hrs
Flight test achievement :

    * flight envelope fully opened
    * performance as prediction
    * stability control meet requirements
    * initial system characteristics were found and to be improved

- PA2 :

Flight test hours log : 200 hrs
Flight test remaining : 800 hrs
Flight test achievement :

    * FT Performance
      a. performance approx. 50 %
      b. stability & control approx. 60 %

    * FT Structure
      a. flutter approx. 75 %
      b. In Flight Load Measurement approx. 75 %

    * FT System approx.                                     20 %

We plan National Certification for the 1st target, then followed by JAA and FAA Certification for the next targets.
Currently N250-100 Program milestones are as follows:

    * National Certification target in mid 2005
    * European Certification target (JAA) in 2006
    * United State Certification target (FAA) in 2007

We have two firm customers, but they need back up financing.
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原文由 红色三翼机 发表

背后?我们背后还是麦道,安东诺夫呢?
虽然当年CN223是和西班牙一起研制的,但是AN250是印尼独立研制的!也就是说印尼出师了。
过程俺不知道,但是结果很明显,我们学了几十年安东洛夫,我们没出师,人家学了没几年就出师了,你说的问题可能就是原因,但是决不能是借口!

很强的的理论!印尼那叫独立研制.
我们这个就算没有苏联专家参与,也不算!
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原文由 松云 发表
印尼的背后是西班牙航空制造公司,要不然,他们连设计方法都掌握不了。
这和中国的发展路子是一样的,区别是,国内因为有运七的存在,因为西飞的势力庞大,所以90座以下涡桨支线的研制被完全垄断,很早前和MBB的合作到后来的收购多尼尔,都是这个格局给闹黄了,而印尼就一家独大,250还是个独苗,自然生出来了。

所以, ......

背后?我们背后还是麦道,安东诺夫呢?
虽然当年CN223是和西班牙一起研制的,但是AN250是印尼独立研制的!也就是说印尼出师了。
过程俺不知道,但是结果很明显,我们学了几十年安东洛夫,我们没出师,人家学了没几年就出师了,你说的问题可能就是原因,但是决不能是借口!
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印尼是千岛之国,交通十分不便,非常需要航空运输。印尼人不甘心于购卖外国飞机,倾举国之力,居然成立了自己的飞机工业公司,先是与西班牙合作研制了 30-50座的CN235,全球销售表现不错。而后,印尼飞机工业公司更是胆大妄为,竟然独立研制出70-90座的螺旋桨飞机N250,这是当时具有国际先进水平的机型,成为世界航空界支线飞机“后起之秀”的代表。

但是就在N250试飞超过上百小时、国内订购量达到上百架、还差一年就可以取得美国联邦航空局(FAA)和欧洲联合航空局(JAA)适航证的时候,1998年亚洲金融危机爆发,印尼经济陷于瘫痪。这时,世界银行、国际货币基金组织答应援助印尼,但附带条件之一就是“一分钱都不能往飞机上投”。印尼飞机工业就这样随着亚洲金融风暴被冲垮了,其优秀人才大部分都被波音、空客吸收。事后有西方媒体披露,在国际货币基金组织和世界银行背后,其实有波音和空客的“黑手”。

印尼的250飞机的命运,和中国的运十飞机何其相似乃尔!

一个螺旋桨版本的运十.起点就比咱差远了!
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印尼的背后是西班牙航空制造公司,要不然,他们连设计方法都掌握不了。
这和中国的发展路子是一样的,区别是,国内因为有运七的存在,因为西飞的势力庞大,所以90座以下涡桨支线的研制被完全垄断,很早前和MBB的合作到后来的收购多尼尔,都是这个格局给闹黄了,而印尼就一家独大,250还是个独苗,自然生出来了。

所以,拿印尼的例子来说事儿,就很无聊,真要想说明国内航空界的无能,巴西是个最好的例证。
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原文由 wangg1975 发表
原来毛子哥安12 安24 都是仿制辫子哥的。
晕12发动机也是pwc的,

研制~~

研制

















。 ......

耻辱号都是自主知识产权的,Y8,Y7能不是自我研发的吗?
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原文由 望远镜 发表
这几个都是※※几十年前研制的.
运8

运7

运12

google下,y8,y7都是多少年前的毛子的东西?研制?看来MD90也是我们研制的了。
如果你不知道型号,俺可以告诉你,Y8-an12,Y7-An24.
Y12,我首帖都写明了,多小的东西,也好意思拿出来?

[红色三翼机 编辑于 2009-04-25 11:56]
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老坛泡菜
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OK!印泥。。。
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原来毛子哥安12 安24 都是仿制辫子哥的。
晕12发动机也是pwc的,

研制~~

研制













































































































你个头啊?

[wangg1975 编辑于 2009-04-25 11:36]
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这几个都是※※几十年前研制的.
运8
运7


运12
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俺来给喜欢YY的左派小童鞋泼点凉水。

题目首先来源于这个讨论:
胖子马甲4:先超过印尼的水平再YY吧。(这个当然是俺被河蟹的前马甲

张行者:就印尼的N250也能用来喷?
指标、自主什么的都懒得扯了,就贴张图大家看看
俺很看好这位童鞋,能够找到N250的图

欧洲列强,美帝,苏修咱就不拿出来说了。加拿大,巴西,识货的童鞋也都不会拿出来PK天 朝的。

看俺只先PK天 朝民用航空工业整机开发水平&印尼地。

注意关键词。军的,零部件的不扯了。扯大了,有些童鞋,原子弹都得扯出来
当然如果把Y12系列这样的小东西拿出来也有点扯,最好也不要做这种丢人的事。。

[红色三翼机 编辑于 2009-04-25 11:05]
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回复主题: 说说印尼的N250灰机。顺带看看天 朝是啥水准。
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